LPG conversion

[smclaren]

Hi Guys

The Australian Federal Government is coughing up a $2,000 rebate to get vehicles converted to use LPG (you guys in the US may call it Propane ??? Apologies if not ...). The price for my conversion is approx $2,500, so my outta pocket is $500.00.

When you consider Premium Unleaded Petrol in Australia is $AUS1.45 per litre ($US 4.90 per gallon) compared to LPG $AUS0.62 per litre ( $US 2.11 per gallon)... it makes sense to cop the $500 hit. I am led to believe that usage of LPG is higher per mile than petrol, but its certinally not double (more like a 1/4 higher)

I need to get to the LPG guys to measure my truck to see if they can fit a tank where I want it, and thats where the current spare wheel sits under the tray at the rear. I will sacrifice that to sit a LPG tank there, and have the spare bouncing around in the back. LPG tanks in the tray itself take up way too much useful room in short beds, I reckon.

Anyway, I'm keen to hear from anyone who has a LPG story to share. No-one I have spoken too has mentioned that my engine (240ci) will need anything done to it to support LPG, so I am assuming it's all systems go. I will also post my question over at FordSix.com to see if those guys have an opinion, but Fordification is always my "go to" team first. Any feedback greatly appreciated as usual.

This will be step one of Project AusBump69, the restoration of my truck back to original (as best possible within $$ reason).

A big Cheers to all ...

Steve

[craftsman]

I don't have any experience with lpg, but is is talked about quite abit over at ford six. A couple guys there are doing it.

[rjewkes]

Why can't our gov be more like Australia?

help the little guy convert, not make him apply for the help after wards?

[rubiranch]

I did propane conversions years ago and I have a 79 F-250 4wd that has has LP on it for 225,000 miles. Expect at least a 10% drop in both mileage and power.

While propane may have a higher octane rating (probably like 104-106) propane does not produce the same BTUs as gasoline does, less heat - less power.

[smclaren]

Thanks Guys, looks like I can't use the 1101 carby, I need a larger Stromberg unit. The 1101 is too small to accept the LPG injection device. Thats one draw back
**Edit .... yes I can use it apparently. By using a "Spud" directly into the carby (ie, drill a hole and introduce the LPG directly into the carb body).

[binder56jd]

i would do it in a heartbeat--not look back--u lose 10 % hp--u add 100% life of engine-u lose 33% gal to pds usage--example it takes 3gal lp to do what 1 gal gasoline does--find a dual fuel set up--over here u will spend 1000-3500 depending on all variables--i am currently looking for an old set up to refurb---go 4 it

[basketcase0302]

Steve,

Would sure like to see some "positive proven" results with propane usage on the site here, (instead of the bashing a few diesel owners here have done when referencing propane power).
Most here on the website know I've got my sights targeted on a propane system for the 460 I'll build.
And most here know my older brother in Atlanta has run a 460 for around 12 years now on propane.
It's a rock crawler and can run upside down with the propane injection it has. He's had nothing but good to say about running propane.
Nowhere near half the pollutants of "other fuels" with a cleaner/more efficient burn. What's to not like?

Here's one of the better threads on the subject of alternative fuels:
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... ht=propane

Jeff

[ToughOldFord]

Why can't our gov be more like Australia?

help the little guy convert, not make him apply for the help after wards?

There are no freebies Robert, the government doesn't have any money without taking it from us first.

[smclaren]

Hey thanks Jeff.

That is a good thread. Some good references there.

Absolutly, I'll make sure that I keep the team up to date on my conversion and the running results.

The challenges for my truck are
- Crappy carb/manifold set up from the factory (240ci are all choked up naturally). LPG theoretically will lessen the limited power available already. No-one likes my carby .... Ford 1101.
- I am going to run dual fuel (Petrol/LPG). This will make starting heaps easier (I have no heater source to fire up LPG in the morning. Start on Petrol, cut over to LPG straight away).
- Tank goes underneath, so I need to settle on a smaller tank.
- The "Spud" technique of plugging the LPG feed via a drilled hole in the carb body is not ideal, but not many options though if I choose not to change carbs (to a 2 brl), which means a intake manifold change, which means a exhaust header pipe change etc etc ... all of a sudden it costs more, and my truck aint stock anymore (which I want to keep).

Just a point, in Australia I would guess that 75% of ALL petrol F-Series have LPG installed. Most of them would be V8's as well. It would be the #1 modification to an F-Truck.

Anyway, as stated, I'll keep all up to date on the results.

Steve

[smclaren]

Hey Robert, looks like our governement is gonna axe the subsidy that I am getting. Hope I can still get in there in time

Apparaently its been too popular ....

Go figure, huh !!!!

[ToughOldFord]

Then it's a good idea not to get caught. I was reading up on making bio-diesel (gave up on the idea, don't want a bomb in my garage) and read that running the bio-diesel without recording miles and paying taxes on it it looked upon by the IRS like running dyed diesel and they consider that tax evasion which can include a $10,000 fine plus jail time. Sounds like LPG could pose the same problem. Maybe some can get away with it in their home state, but here in Cali they have mobile roadside smog sniffers they use in the larger cities. I wouldn't put it past them to have sniffers that could detect LPG, bio, or even they dye in the diesel. May be far fetched, but I don't think it'd be worth the risk.

[Fordnatic]

I always thought it gave less MPG's because of the the lower BTU's. That's why it requires such a larger tank to get any range. Maybe if the engine is built and tuned specifically for it it's not so bad. I always wanted to run a dual fuel system on LPG most of the time, then have a tank of 100LL aviation fuel in the tank for racing and such.

[Happy_Camper]

Yes, LP does give less energy than gasoline pound for pound of fuel. Stoich of gasoline is 14.7:1, and for LPG it's 15.6:1, plus as you said the BTUs are less. It's also a cold fuel, and removes heat energy. Running 11.5:1 compression will help regain some of the lost power and heat, but will not outperform a gasoline engine.
That said, it's very clean, so oil contamination is low providing better lubricity over the life span of the oil. Spark plugs run cleaner, providing better spark, Seal life is increased, so for the maintenance challenged individual, it's really great!
To get the best performance, the engine needs to be mechanically optimized for LPG.
I've pulled 13,000# equipment trailers with a 390 built for LPG in a '73 Ford F350, and the same trailer with a 390 built for gasoline in a '75 Ford F350. The gasoline truck had more usable power, and better fuel mileage, but was raucous compared to the smooth and quiet LPG truck.

[willowbilly3]

I have a whole system and Jay Storerer's out of print book that anyone interested should have.
What I can tell you I found out
Less power
Less mileage
Both by about 15% apparently
My is don't do dual fuel. If you are going propane then build the engine to optimize that system.

[rubiranch]

I built and tuned my engine for LP; I would never have a straight system because LP is not always readily available. That makes if difficult to leave the city.