What are the costs and options for rebuilt T18s?

[robroy]

Good evening!

Now that I'm considering installing my new engine with a rebuilt T18 attached to it, I'm curious to know what the best options are for T18s.

Is there a well known, reputable transmission rebuilder that sells rebuilt T18s "mail order?" (Now the web).

Or is it best to find a local shop to rebuild my exact T18?

Also, what kinds of prices should I expect to pay for these different options?

Thanks very much!
-Robroy

[FORDification]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how easy it is to rebuild one of these yourself. These are very simple and virtually indestructible, so 99% of the time the gears and other heavy parts inside will be A-OK. About all you're gonna need to do is replace some seals, bushings and bearings. The master rebuild kit itself is inexpensive ($150-$200), and the only specialty tools you'll need access to are a hydraulic press, some snap-ring pliers and bearing pullers.

Here's a pictorial of a T-19 rebuild (which is almost identical to a T-18, except that the T-19 has syncros that the T-18 doesn't have):
http://www.texasoffroad.net/galleries/o ... ld-Install

A good link to check out for the kit:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/t18_t19_parts.htm

The Ford factory shop manual has a step-by-step disassembly/reassembly tutorial, along with exploded-view diagrams and all the necessary torque settings.

I'd say go for it....and take lots of pictures for a tutorial here!

[robroy]

Hi Keith! Thank you very much for the great information and links.

I don't have access to much of a shop or garage and don't have anything like a hydraulic press, so I probably wouldn't attempt the build myself. It's neat that the T18 is that simple though and some day I'd love to get my hands on the guts!

For the meanwhile, I'm hoping to get my truck on the road as soon as possible, with good solid components. I haven't driven a Bumpside truck in over six years and I really forget what it's like!

So I'll be looking to hire out the build.

The main symptom my T18 has, other than being ugly, is that third gear and reverse are difficult to distinguish between. When friends used to drive my truck they'd usually grind reverse a few times before figuring out the perfect way to pop it in to third. These are similar to my own personal problems (ugly and accidentally get stuck in reverse, just when I think I'm shifting in to third).

Thanks again Keith!!!
-Robroy

[AlleyCat]

Robroy, if finding gears is all that's wrong the shift tower ( lid on top of trans ) and the shift lever are worn out. The lever is held in by a retaining collar that threads onto the shift tower. If you unscrew the collar you'll see a short steel pin, about 1/4" in diameter and 5/8" long that slides thru the side of the tower. This is the pivot for the shifter. The pin is harder than the metal used for the tower and the shift lever. Over time the hole in the tower and the notch in the shift lever wear to the point that it becomes all but imposible to shift.

This is what I call a " poke and hope " 4 speed.

[robroy]

I just got a rough estimate from a local transmission shop on rebuilding the T18.

They said worst case scenario it could run up to $1,500. And best case scenario would be around $900.

He said that the best case scenario is as high as it is because the large bearings in these transmission are expensive. He also said that these transmissions are built so well that they rarely see worst case scenarios.

Does that price sound somewhat reasonable? That price also includes making it all immaculate and painting it when they're done, naturally.

Thanks!!!
-Robroy

[averagef250]

Those prices are rediculously unreasonable! Should never be more than $600. Hard parts are everywhere and bearings are very affordable.

A price like that tells me that shop doesn't want to do the work because they don't know what they're doing. The bearing price nonsense is total BS.

Like was already stated, you don't need a rebuild. You need to fix your top plate. No special tools required, just pop it off and fix whatever's wrong. Should be apart when you get it off why it does what it does.

If you really, really want a good honest build and can't find a local shop PM me. I have a couple T-19's and 435's laying around or I can find a T-18 if you want to stay original.

[robroy]

Hey Dustin! Thanks for your advice!

Yeah the price seemed a little high to me too, but I'm not sure how long this rebuild would take a shop to complete. The hourly rate is relatively high around the San Francisco bay area, which could explain the price.

Even if I had a press in my garage, I'm sure from start to finish the build would take me at least ten hours, since I don't really know what I'm doing.

Maybe I'll call a few other transmission shops to see what types of estimates I get.

Regarding whether or not I need a full rebuild or not, I know what you mean when you say I probably don't. Yet the transmission is so tough to get in and out (for me, at least), that once it's out, I'm inclined to do everything I need to do to it then. That way I'll know it'll be good for a nice long time.

Thank you Dustin!
-Robroy

[AlleyCat]

Robroy it's a shame we don't live a mite closer. I've got a couple good T18's stashed. One is a low miles reman unit I pulled out of wrecked dentside.

[Alvin in AZ]

A good link to check out for the kit:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/t18_t19_parts.htm

Just now ordered a kit and put Fordification.com in the comments section too. ;)
Keith, thanks for the post and to RobRoy for the thread. :)

Alvin in AZ
ps- yeah, i'm takin pictures ;)

[robroy]

Hi Folks! I did a little shopping around--here are the prices I've collected so far:

1. T18 rebuild at Scott's Valley Transmissions (local shop): $900 - $1,500
2. T18 from Summit Racing (from Advanced Adapters): $1,008
3. T18 from Hicks4x4.com (including $200 shipping and $150 core): $1,145

Considering that options #2 and #3 would present significant delays (Summit says they couldn't ship for a couple of weeks), and that both of them would leave me with a T18 left over that I'd need to do something with, the local rebuild price doesn't look so bad anymore.

Dustin, do you have any comments on why $600 is the top fair price for a rebuild, considering that transmission places seem to seel rebuilt T18's for $1,000 or more? Maybe there are aspects to this that I'm not understanding.

Thanks very much!
-Robroy

[AlleyCat]

Robroy, most trans shops operate like most glass shops. They price it high enough to cover the cost of 2 units. If the trans shop has to honor a warranty failure they don't make any money on the second rebuild but they don't lose any money either. If a glazier ( glass installer ) breaks the new windshield they aren't out any cash for the second one.

[robroy]

Hi Clay! That's an interesting principle that I haven't heard of, but it makes sense. It seems hard to imagine much going wrong with something as straightforward and stout as a T18, but I suppose this principle holds true anyways.

Yet the comparison I was hoping to make was between the $600 rebuild job referenced by Dustin and these ~ $1,000 transmissions--both of these would have warranties.

Thanks Clay!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Just got another quote from a different shop: they said the low estimate was $600 and the high was $1,200, depending on how many "hard parts" they needed to replace. They mentioned that they'd charge around $275 for the basic rebuild kit (bearings, seals, etc), and it would take them three hours of labor to apply this kit. The labor rate around here is $100/hour.

Well that sounds a little better than the first estimate I got, although I hesitate to choose a shop based on their estimate, since what I'm really looking for is a high quality rebuild at a fair price.

-Robroy

[Alvin in AZ]

Yeah but, does this mean anything to you... ?
"I rebuilt it myself for less than $250! :)" -RobRoy

Mosly for me, it's about enjoying doing stuff like that knowing my pickup is something
-I fixed myself-.
I know everyone has their limitations and one of mine is... I can't fix a drive-shaft.
I fix my own flats and mount and balance my own tires tho.
(anybody else on here that silly? LOL:)

I have some really good rattail and half-round files but I can't bore an engine neither. :/

I might find out my press isn't up to the challenge of rebuilding a T18 here pretty
quick. :( My press looks just like a double-wide-trailer and a bottle jack. ;)

But I did manage to press the bearing retaining collars down on the 31 spline axle shafts. :)
That took more than one try tho and some 5/8" all thread I had picked up at a scrap yard.

You can do it if you want to, it's up to you. (this post not meant only for RobRoy)

Alvin in AZ
ps- http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/t18_t19_parts.htm

[averagef250]

The difference in the $600 quote and the $1500 quote is the integrity of the shop.

Takes me a solid day start to finish to overhaul most pickup sticks. The process isn't that complex, I could do three in a day if I had to, but the work would be lessor quality. Cleaning the parts takes the longest. I don't rattlecan rebuild anything so to actually get a transmission case factory clean inside and out isn't the quickest thing even with the right equipment.

The difference in transmission repairs from one shop to another is mostly attention to details. I don't care how long a shop's been in business or how great thier warranty is. Thier failure rate is pretty important though. Most shops are around 1 in 10-15. Big outfits like a AAMCO or ALLtrans take the cake at around 1 in 4 to 5.

Big builders don't rebuild transmissions honestly. Their definitions of a rebuild even state they don't. They usually say "all parts worn beyond specification are replaced".

The big places buy transmission cores from core suppliers who buy direct from auto dismantlers. They get these "core transmissions" in knowing there's a good chance the trannies are still good. They inspect them and if one appears to be in great shape they clean the case and send it right out the door as rebuilt. If they suspect it's not great inside they tear it down to subassemblies and shelve the parts. Then when somebody orders a transmission they pick acceptable looking parts from the shelves and bins and assemble your transmission. This is why they have a 25% failure rate yet still make more money than the small shop.