ot newer 351w serpintine belt question

[SteveC]

Ok i havent had a chance to go to the auto store but i was wondering if off chance that someone here knew if a 89-92ish 351w all came with the smog/a.i.r. pump. Im taking of some of the few emission items off and was wondering if there is a way to be able to not use the smog pump.

[LANCE65]

Check out the FOX body Mustang parts. They have a smog pump eliminator for the 5.0. I 'THINK' Jegs has them. They 'may' work for the 5.8,but not too sure.
-Lance

[Dragon]

You keeping the original computer?

If so the unit will go into two alarm modes one for the EGO not seeing a lean condition when AIR is open and two for the engine AIR sensor not reporting. Nothing wrong with AIR on the street but go into the exhaust ports where the injector tubes are trim the tubes smooth with the roof of the port. The increase in flow will make up for the horsepower drag of the AIR pump.

[SteveC]

i figured that it was gonna throw up a service engine light code... we already eliminated the cross over tube on the back of the heads. And this truck isnt gonna have a carcol canister it will still vent cause im using the original 72 vented cap and filler neck. I has just wondering if i can just eliminate the smog pump cause i really dont want to have to try to add more things into the efi change over than i have to.

Any other thoughts on this would be appreciated.

[flatblack]

you really dont need any aftermarket things, ive done it and it cost me nothing, just the price of a smaller belt, which i needed to replace the old one anyways,
heres a pic:

beltrouting.jpg

[Dragon]

i figured that it was gonna throw up a service engine light code... we already eliminated the cross over tube on the back of the heads.

It won't just send up a service flag. Remove anything that the computer thinks will damage the engine or cause a safety issue and you will get a LOS code and function. Limited Operating Strategy where the engine drops into low rpm mode only just to get you to a shop. Service flags don't learn to go away. If you replace the sensors with the proper middle of the road resistor settings the computer says I am happy. If it is a switch the computer looks at it both ways. If on start the switch needs to be open(off) and it is on it might not let the engine start and run normal.

LOS triggers:
WOT and EGO failure at same time
High Temp Low oil pressure.
Low fuel pressure pump signal okay EGO lean (fuel leak)

Anyway the down side to removing the wrong or right parts is it can go wrong fast. The upside to modifying the system and keeping the parts is better emissions, sometime better economy and my son doesn't have to grow up in the air that we create.

[SteveC]

ive have thought on this most of today and came to the conclussion that instead of trying to get resistors to match values and get every thing right it would be easier to just get the vapor canister, put a vaper line into the 25ish gallon gas tank dad and i made, hook up the smog pump since the only thing im really missing i think is the vaper canister and the canister purge silinoid, and take the plug out of the top of the cross over tube.

That way i dont have to fiddle around with trying to wonder what vacuum tubes i need and dont and i dont have to fiddle with trying to get electricaly resistors figured out.

Im still gonna run all 3(ithink it is) oxigyn sensors the one after each manifold and the one that is suppose to be after the catylitic converter but since im not running a cat i think it should be ok to put after the muffler... though that will probally throw up a code as well... or worse i dunno( maybe i can get some help there.

[Dragon]

Leave the 3rd O2 sensor off or not. It's main reason was to test for believe it or not that the exhaust system was not clogged before it or had a leak before it, They average the #1&2 sensors and compare #3 to it.

In some states like California and Colorado putting a newer smogged engine in requires a smog inspection in most other states it does not.

[SteveC]

i figured that since i have the parts to put the third one in i might as well.

one of the bigger hurdles i fore see is that i gotta figure out the after market fuel pump and wiring the 91's fuel relay into it., And working on tying old harness into new fuse block so that all the old stuff basically runs on its own seperate fuse.

Which will be the wipers, turn signals, brake lights, and head lights. Other than that the radio is a stock out of the 91, and the dash panel was out of the same 91. It fits just need to adapt the old panel to hold the new one.

To bad the heater controls wouldnt fit in the dash were the 72's are.

any ways ill stop blabbing on and say thanks for your help Dragon.

[averagef250]

I can see where Dragon is coming from from the perspective of troubleshooting these things in their factory installation, but tens of thousands of EEC-IV engines have been swapped into older chassis with EGR and air injection completely removed.

I have done quite a few of them. I remove EGR and use resistors to fake the EEC. I remove the air pump completely, plug all the holes and run a shorter belt. The engines run a good bit better without this crap, look much cleaner and are far easier to troubleshoot.

[averagef250]

Why are you using the entire 91 truck harness? The 91's engine harness is nearly completely seperate from the truck's chassis, charging and interior wiring. To put an EEC-IV truck engine in a bump or dentside I use just the late model engine harness routed through a hole in the firewall just above the throttle linkage. I mount the EEC in place of the factory speaker and put the FP, EEC power and O2 relays with a small fuse block on the firewall above the heater. I wire the trucks stock resisted ignition wire to feed the EEC relay and pull CP right off the starter relay.

The late model truck wiring is perfect length to fit like this.

[SteveC]

dunno to me it just seems easier to use the 91's wiring the 72's and the 70's are a bit chewed up and im not gonna use all but quite a bit of it...

for how my brain works its just simpler i suppose. I have it so that when i get up the energy to tackle taking the egr and the smog pump off i can fairly easy.

[Dragon]

I have done quite a few of them. I remove EGR and use resistors to fake the EEC. I remove the air pump completely, plug all the holes and run a shorter belt. The engines run a good bit better without this crap, look much cleaner and are far easier to troubleshoot.

He has decided that resistors are not his way to go. I also said that you could. But I have cleared the AIR tubes from the exhaust ports and pulled more power than the pump stole. It still shot air into the ports but had been cut then ground down to smooth. I reprogramed an EEC 4 to use EGR only at above idle under high vacuum. i.e. closed throttle. That helps the emissions.

The goal for my truck is fuel injection, computer control dizzy 400 hp 500 torque FE with modern emissions of a 5.4 F250 out of 6.2 liter 376cid engine.

[SteveC]

the computer reprogam and the resistors are a little out of my current knowlege.

But doesnt mean that i cant go back and do it later. I guess the main reason for using the how truck harness was for the upgrade in the fuse panel... i mean i could take another month working 1 day a week rewiring everything using the painless 18 circuit fuse panel i have but thats a little more than i want to try to do.

anyways.. thanks again for all your guys help.

[averagef250]

The resistor trick is easy as pie. 3 easy to find resistors soldered into 3 wires. Let me know if you're interested. I'll dig out the schematic and resistor values for you.