Why do we install carbureted engines in our Fords?

[Joshpow]

My reason is the smeel of unleaded wafting out the top af the old carb. Also, simplicity to modify fuel curves. No computer to reprogram. No electronics or injectors to mess with. Also, 20 mpg from a 302 doesn't make me want to change.

[Dragon]

I can add more, my truck leaks but does not burn oil. On a hot day after a carb hot soak the cloud of gas looks blue, the engine takes 20 seconds or more to crank and then falls flat on it's nose on the first gas peddle push to get rolling because the float bowls had most of all the fuel cooked out of them. A stench of heated gasoline gets everyones attention.

At 11 mpg on my 390 I need more mileage.

[Jake11]

I been schooled in "FI' since the 80's and GM would not make them
work right. I learned a little at GM training in Burbank,Ca. AC Delco
tried to fix it, but the car dealers sued them to death.

FI is nice for techno types to play with. A plain old carb will beat it
if set up right. FI was a mandatory thing cause of "emissions/fuel
econamy" Add ethanol and injector destruction occours. They are
putting alchy in the gas again. Like in the 80's. Seen it happen then
and it will again. Idiots.

OK, what does this mean? Alchohal absorbs water. That corrodes
metal parts. Like gas tank. Fuel lines. Carbs. Injectors.

Is there a work around? I have not found one yet.

[Dragon]

Alky eats older carb seals too. My 80508s Holley is e85 certified. In the high country where I live 15% alcohol is added every winter to absorb water and make easier cold starts.

I was trained on Fords SFI in 1986 and when I got my 89 GMC Boom Truck with TBI I could not believe how sloppy the system was compared to Fords.

[rubiranch]

For overall driveability even a perfect carb will not perform as well as fuel injection, especially during extreme hot and cold start ups and extreme changes in altitude.

Unless a fuel injected system uses a MAF sensor or a separate BARO sensor A/F mixtures and timing will not adjust for altitude without the engine being shut off and restarted.

FI that rely on a MAP sensor looks at the KOEO (key on engine off) MAP sensor voltage before the engine is cranked to calculate altitude.

Engines equipped with only a MAF sensor need to be run at WOT (wide open throttle) to calculate altitude. I've scanned computers that show an altitude under 1000 ft that were here in Salt Lake at 4400 ft. A quick trip around the block and a short WOT and the altitude comes right into line.

Theoretically, a carburetor is designed to perform from -40 degree F to about 220+ degrees F.

If your carburetor is working as it was intended you vehicle should be very drivable under all conditions. The biggest problems I encounter while 4-wheeling up to 14,000 ft is more of a loss of power than blowing black smoke and poor running.

My Holley works excellent for me, great cold and hot driveability, respectable mileage and the secondaries work perfect. It took a little work to get it there but I am very pleased with it.

I think one of the biggest problems we face owning these older truck is that the carburetors have been rebuilt numerous times and not always by people who were qualified to rebuild them. A carburetor can only take so much and after that it will just never work as it should, regardless of who rebuilds it.

No doubt that with fuel injection it would run even better but at this point it just wouldn't be cost effective for me.

Sorry to just ramble on.

[flatblack]

a friend of mine and i had a deep argument over fuel injection vs carberation.... we brought up a lot of good points and a lot of pros and cons. but when it came down to it i knew i had lost because i was sticking up for fuel injection. but if you think about it... its a computer, simply put. where as a carb has someone behind it, a computer can only do so much, then it gets really expensive. ya you got sequential port fuel injection, everytime a cylinder fires it tells the computer what the engine is doing and the computer adjusts things to make the engine run better, but that can only go so far. its a computer, it will do the same thing over and over and over and over and over.... you get the point. if you have all the right tools you can make a carb run just as good, but without spending bajilions of dollars. i think the whole reason behind efi was so that engines could make up for all the smog crap going threw the engine and so you can start the thing at -40 weather. but thinking about it firsthand i could throw 20 thousand on an engine, throw another 20 at fuel injecting it, programming etc etc. but chances are ill probably still get spanked by that 427 SOHC beside me with dual quads and a hi rise intake

[BRUTUS_T_HOG]

I have been trying to replace a simple fuel filter in my '95 Caravan with EFI 3.3 liter.
I have the manuel and know what to do...
Now, I have to find a pressure relief tool # C-4779-1 that is included with fuel gauge # C-4799-A...
wwwwuuuuzzzzuuuuppppwwwwiiitttdddaaaatt
The book don't show no pics of it.. so I don't even know what the heck to look for... no one even knows what the heck a C-4779-1 is...
If I wuz changing fuel filters on my '68 CS I wud have been done yesterday in 10 minutes... if that long...
AAAARRRRGGGG !!! I hate these things

Nuff said...

KaptnKA S

just pull the fuel pump relay while the engine is running= pressure relieved

[basketcase0302]

Jake,

FI is nice for techno types to play with. A plain old carb will beat it
if set up right.

I agree 100%, (and yes I'm one of those that fall into the "how do you work on FI category). Changing jets or power valves is much easier to me than replacing an injector that is buried under a bunch of crap too.

But you gotta think just how many fuel injected/1st place/trophy winning/top fuel, funny car, or mud boggers do you see?

Basketcase

[rubiranch]

The #1 reason for fuel injection is emissions.

A new vehicle is/was required to drive something like 50,000 miles without being serviced other than oil changes and still pass emission tests and a carbureted engine just can't do that.

I love fuel injected engines, if it came right down to it I wish my 390 was injected.

You never have to adjust it, it adjusts it self.
There no CHOKE, which very few carburetors ever had right to begin with.
No hot start problems.
Your oil stays cleaner longer which in turn increases engine life.

On the other had, I love carburetors too because I love working on them. I'll bet over the years I have rebuilt 1000's of carburetors from the most simple Auotlite 2100 to Keihin carburetors on Hondas, dual side drafts on Datsuns, MGs Triumphs, Preludes and even carburetors on early Honda 600s. I've rebuilt 100s of Carter AFBs, Quadrajets, Carter Thermoquads, Holleys, Edelbrocks, and more.

In the early 80s Ford and Lincoln Mercury dealers would sublet their vehicles equipped with Motorcraft 2700 and 7200 Variable Venturi carb to where I worked to have me rebuld them, what a neat varburetor. I also taught basic and feedback carburetor theory and OH classes for several years.

They both have their advantages but I do love how driveable and low maint a fuel injected vehicle is.

[Dragon]

Jake,

But you gotta think just how many fuel injected/1st place/trophy winning/top fuel, funny car, or mud boggers do you see?

Basketcase

All top fuel cars are fuel injected and have been since the 50s

http://www.gerardot.com/products.htm Just not EFI
http://www.hilborninjection.com/product ... 3&CatId=38

EFi racing systems.

Above 7000rpm in a large engine mechanical and EFi are about the only systems that can feed enough fuel. Carb jets just aren't big enough.

[Jake11]

And it's still gonna be a piece of junk. The VVC is not considered
to be any kind of carb. It's a fishing weight. Still got all the tools to
set one up. Keep um next to my sneeky pete. Carb's. In 74 there was
a QJ with a compensating bellows and metering rod. It cold started
and ran at 8000ft as good as SL. I had one. Top fuelers don't use
EECIV. This is ridiculous. FI is good for the wife, works kinda like
the vac cleaner. Just turn it on and go. It don't have to work right
just make it go forward or sumthin or make noise like it's working.

Now theres a lot of "FI" cars on the road just like that. I know. I
fix them.

[td]

this is one i seen at the rodrun i recently attended. it had an efi swap, and looked to be done well. it said $8900 or make me an offer.

[j41385]

I would have reservations about paying 2000 bucks for that truck. He is on crack. Some people don't realise that you dont earn back every penny put into the truck when selling it.

[rubiranch]

compensating bellows

An aneroid, they were used on several differnt carburetors including Motocraft 2150s but Motorcraft used them to change float bowl air pressures.

And it's still gonna be a piece of junk.

No one liked them, I loved them. They ran like a million bucks when done right. I took two classes from George Rodden from Ford Motor Company back in 1979 when I worked for Ford.

George was one of the most knowledgeable men on carburation I ever met and considered myself very fortunate to be a student in several of his classes, truly a great teacher.

He taught us how to dial them in at a cruise using propane enrichment to calibrate the jets individually and equally.

Did you know that the only purpose the accelerator pump served was for cold start-up and other than that they served no purpose?

It was also one of the only carburetors that actually controlled A/F mixtures by controlling atmospheric pressures in the float bowl via the feedback actuator by bleeding a small amount of vacuum into the float bowl which lowered the atmospheric pressure which naturally leaned out the A/F mixture. After all, pressure deferential is the principal of how carburetors work in the first place. Great carburetor.

[DuckRyder]

I still think that we are confusing the issue of fuel injecting an engine that was never equipped and swapping or FI an engine that has factory parts available.

You'll get no argument from me that swapping in a FI 300 or 5.0 is a worthwhile endeavor, although even then it is not as easy as simply rebuilding the existing motor. There are high pressure lines, O2 sensors and wiring to deal with. None of it is difficult though and it should be attainable for any mildly literate and moderately funded hot rodder.

You start talking about adapting that EFI to something like an FE and you have a new set of issues. What are you going to do about a throttle body, fuel rails, how to mount the MAF, how to calibrate the ECU? Is it do able yes, is it a walk in the park, certainly not. You'd be money and aggravation ahead I suspect to buy a set up from someone that has done the development work for you.

Realistically, this argument has been around as long as EFI has been around, it is very nearly a "Ford vs Chevy" thing and it is extremely unlikely that either the "carb" camp or the "EFI" camp is going to change the others mind. Basically, you pay your money and you pick your poison.