Anyone Tried EFI?

[DuckRyder]

In looking at pictures on Holley's website, I may be wrong about the Ford kick down on the Terminator, the pictures look like it has it. I don’t see mention of it in the instructions and did not see it in the videos. They may have upgraded it, Also I believe it now comes with eh 3.5” color screen vs the simple controller seen in older videos. I’m going to try to investigate this a bit further.

It should also be mentioned that the Terminator can also be tuned with a Laptop and can be had in a version with transmission control.

The Stealth version of the Terminator looks much like a Holley Ultra carb...

[MadJoe]

It is just so ugly. I guess it is a good excuse to run a big factory style air cleaner to cover it up.

Haha, I keep trying to forget that part! Maybe if they had offered brushed nickle as a choice, but in black (boring), chrome (too much), and dull gold (what the is this color? Who liked it enough to let it happen?!? ), it ain't pretty...from any angle except under the air cleaner, anyway.

[brkdncr]

If you have a truck with a vapor canister that you can remove I don’t see why you couldn’t dump the return back thorough that vent. At least one system warned against this though, then several videos did it.

The reason you shouldn't use the vapor return line is because it's not sized large enough. The pump runs at full pressure, the regulator will bypass anything over 41psi back to the tank. If the vapor return line has too much resistance then it will cause problems with the fuel pump over time. For my 61 lincoln i used new hose of the correct size but then used an adaptor at the tank to make use of the vapor return line there. This avoids most of the resistance in the line, but my pump started whining not long after install which is either due to this fuel line setup or defective pump. FAST didn't offer much help other than "you have something in your lines blocking flow, it's not the pump".

[DuckRyder]

If you have a truck with a vapor canister that you can remove I don’t see why you couldn’t dump the return back thorough that vent. At least one system warned against this though, then several videos did it.

The reason you shouldn’t use the vapor return line is because it’s not sized large enough. ...

That makes sense, particularly as a general rule.

I was thinking that the vapor return line was the same size as the fuel supply hose, but I’m away from my truck and it has been years since I looked at the vapor return set up.

[DuckRyder]

My list updated in prior post.

I contacted Holley and they confirmed that the Terminator has the Ford Kickdown and that the Lokar cable is the recommended solution for the Sniper (this is going to cost about $100.00)

They also confirmed that all Terminator kits now ship with he 3.5” screen, this has been true for over a year so they felt getting an old one should not be an issue.

The Terminator ECU is capable of driving the Holley EFI oil pressure gauge but there is no wring in the harness for it. They said it is doable with custom wiring. (This only matters if you are thinking you may want to run a full set of Holley EFI CANBUS gauges at some point)

[JoshT]

I will be putting EFI on the 390 in my signature at some point. Seriously considering the Holley Sniper system with a Holley dual sync distributor to control timing. Got a 23 gallon Bronco II tank with EFI pump and sender sitting behind the shop that should fit between the rear frame rails nicely.

Reading HIO's results is really promising. No way I'll get the 18 mpg he sees, but if I could squeeze 15 on a good day I'd be happy.

Subscribing for future updates.
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[DuckRyder]

It is just so ugly. I guess it is a good excuse to run a big factory style air cleaner to cover it up.

Haha, I keep trying to forget that part! Maybe if they had offered brushed nickle as a choice, but in black (boring), chrome (too much), and dull gold (what the is this color? Who liked it enough to let it happen?!? ), it ain’t pretty...from any angle except under the air cleaner, anyway.

Forgot to mention:

I think the gold is an attempt at mimicking the classic Gold Dichromate finish. (The Terminator Stealth is also available in it) It doesn’t quite get there imo from photos but I don’t hate it. Not sure how the tumble polished is protected but it probably won’t stay that shiny for long.

Still reading:

A little torn:

Both Sniper and Atomic can easily control timing with an MSD magnetic pick up distributor though at least one webpage recommends against it. Terminator appears to only support TFI and Small Cap HEI through the touch screen. It appears the dual sync and possibly mag pickup are doable with a laptop.

The Terminator has angular discharge and allegedly wiring to run dual units (on a dual quad intake) is in the works.

Leaning toward Terminator. Probably not Stealth.

Sniper isn’t out of the running... I really would rather not deal with a cable conversion for the C6... guess I could just leave the kick down off all it usually does when it down shifts is smoke the tires and upshift anyway

I think we lost the OP...

[DuckRyder]

Another point.

The Terminator Stealth does have an inlet assembly that resembles a typical Holley dual inlet, because of this the external regulator is plumbed in ahead to the throttle body which might simplify your fuel system plumbing. Both the Sniper and the standard Terminator have a return from the throttle body though I suppose the regular terminator could have the return port plugged and plumbed like the Stealth.

I did notice in my YouTube cruising that Barry R had a stroked FE making about 500HP on a Sniper.

[Clunker]

Wow! I leave you guys alone for a couple weeks, and this subject takes off.

Great feedback everyone. For the time being, I bought a $30 Holley rebuild kit and a decent How-to book. When I finally make the switch to EFI, I want to do it right, so I'm going to save up. This is my first carb rebuild, so wish me luck.

Off subject: Does anyone recommend an internet source for determining optimal primary jet size?

[DuckRyder]

RE: Jets

You will probably find that the OE jets for the carb are not far off, if I were you I would return the carb to as built configuration, then go from there.

What is the list number on your carb, you should find it on the front of the airhorn, it should be something like 1850-4...

RE: FI

Apparently the Sniper can also be tuned with a computer.

[My427stang]

I have installed a few different EFI systems, but never the Sniper. It looks good though

2 things to do it right IMHO though.

First you need to add a bung to the intake manifold for the coolant temp sensor

This is how I did the Victor EFI on my Mustang, it is SEFI based off a Massflow system but a TB system requires the same coolant temp info. Chevy has one thing going for it as it has numerous areas to touch water. I missed what your engine is, but if it is an FE, it's tough. Small blocks may have other options. In an FE you can potentially move the gauge sender to the thermostat housing, but if you do that, you should drill a thermostat and clock it to try to spray water on the sender, otherwise it will be less responsive. Then you can put the coolant temp sensor into the intake. I prefer to add a prefab bung, but Performers, Performer RPMs, and many other intakes have a little bit less room.



Second, FITech makes a setup that uses a stock fuel pump to feed a reservoir that is then pumped at high pressure. Guys are NOT having good luck with it. I highly recommend you modify your tank for either a drop in pump and a return, or in the very least a high pressure pusher ump on the frame and a return. The benefit is significant other than cost. You maintain constant pressure, you cycle fuel, and it becomes almost vapor-lock proof because of the pressurized system all the way to the injectors

One last comment, all the TB systems seem to work great, but if your engine is real radical, they can be fussy. I have heard FITech works pretty well down to 7 inches of vacuum at idle, but have not verified. The only system I would avoid like the plague is Professional Products Powerjection. It's a neat setup, and could be considered a pioneer, has a nice interface on a laptop, but no handheld, no real good tech support, and the worst thing is all parts that support the TB are dirt cheap and tough to replace.

I put one on a 69 Camaro, and it is doing well, but it took a lot of experimentation to get there

[DuckRyder]

...Second, FITech makes a setup that uses a stock fuel pump to feed a reservoir that is then pumped at high pressure. Guys are NOT having good luck with it. ...

Yes, they call it the “fuel command center” or something to that effect. Edelbrock makes a similar set up called the UNIVERSAL EFI SUMP FUEL SYSTEM KIT. To me this introduces an additional failure point of using the existing pump to fill the sump, plus the sump is under the hood and the return fuel is dumped back into a relatively small reservoir.

I noted that at least one of the you tubers reporting issues with the Sniper was running this set up.

Additionally I don’t really see how it is that much less work to do it that way.

Holley and Tanks inc both sell Mustang fuel tanks ready for FI if you are planning to do that conversion anyway.

Holley’s own Sniper installation video seems to show a realistic view of what is involved.

https://youtu.be/1mIhs4xahBY

CJ Pony also has a Sniper install:

https://youtu.be/HdWiL0v-jpk

And a Terminator install:

https://youtu.be/fy7eRVTymyw

Hagerty has a Terminator install with some dyno, drag and fuel economy testing:

https://youtu.be/iry0QhiuulM

I’m wondering it the results would be similar with the Sniper to what Hagerty got with the Terminator.

[My427stang]

I am with you Robert, seems like just as much work for no significant benefit. In fact, I understand the fuel command center is fed by a single holley needle and seat, if that's true, it'd be pretty easy to out-power that! If not, it's still just adding another failure point, I agree COMPLETELY

I run the tanks inc sump in my Mustang, except I modified it for dual pumps for a future supercharged build, its a good setup. However, when I do the EFI on my bump, I plan to just hang a big pump on the fuel rail and keep the stock tank Not as good as in tank, but I have a big external pump here, and just need to punch two holes and put pass through fittings for 1/2 feed and return.

[Clunker]

I tore the Holley apart today and found a few suspect things. First, never buy a rebuilt carb on ebay. Some of the parts were not replaced in the rebuild, and some of the parts were not properly installed. Unfortunately, my number one suspect (the power valve) tested out fine, and even replacing it with the new one had no effect. Although, the technician who rebuilt it used the wrong gasket. I didn't do a full rebuild, but I think that's what needs to happen for me to eliminate all possible issues. I will start another thread, so this one can focus on EFI.

[DuckRyder]

Well, I guess we will see.