302 vs 5.0 bell housing bolt patterns.

[luke-ao]

Does the older 302 and the newer 5.0 have a different bell housing bolt patterns? If they changed, what year(s) did they change?

(Apologies up front, I'm sure this has been ask a million times.)

[luke-ao]

OK, I found this> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_F ... g_patterns
Their all the same which is what I always thought. What prompted me to ask was all the threads on transmission swaps, engine to trans spaces, etc.

That said can I assume that if I find a newer Mustang with a 5 or 6 speed manual trans I can pull the trans and clutch parts and bolt it up to my old 302?

[Ranchero50]

Yes and no. Google it some more and you'll find out about flywheel imbalance and clutch actuation types. Our truck are 28 oz imbalance flywheels and push type clutch actuation with a Z bar and rod. Late model stuff is 50 oz imbalance, and pull type with a cable. Late model trucks also used a hydraulic setup. Older 302's have the Z bar pivot threaded hole, late models typically don't. There are nuances you need to understand before selecting parts. One real kick in the nuts is our cab's firewall is flimsy and flexes excessively with a cable or master cylinder mount.

So post up what you want to try and we'll try to help.

[luke-ao]

All I'm trying to do is get more gears, I'm tired of a 55 MPH truck. I'm planing on hitting the salvage yard this summer and I'm just trying to figure out what to shop for. It's a several hour trip so I cant run back and forth trying to figure it out. When I'm done it's going to be a street truck, I wont be doing anything heavy duty with it, its just basic transportation. The 302 isn't stock but it's not a hot rod build either.

For the clutch, it doesn't have to be a bolt in solution, it sounds like a little engineering and fab work would do the trick(?)

In regard to the flywheel, I assume all your saying is I will have to get a flywheel specifically for my early 302.

[Ranchero50]

All I'm trying to do is get more gears, I'm tired of a 55 MPH truck. I'm planing on hitting the salvage yard this summer and I'm just trying to figure out what to shop for. It's a several hour trip so I cant run back and forth trying to figure it out. When I'm done it's going to be a street truck, I wont be doing anything heavy duty with it, its just basic transportation. The 302 isn't stock but it's not a hot rod build either.

For the clutch, it doesn't have to be a bolt in solution, it sounds like a little engineering and fab work would do the trick(?)

I tried and it didn't work out as well as I would like when I did the IDI 6.9 install with a ZF 5 speed. The wall just flexed too much even with an extra web. Needs to be solid welded to the pedal support I think and not rely on the wall itself to support the load.

In regard to the flywheel, I assume all your saying is I will have to get a flywheel specifically for my early 302.

Flywheels are different diameter to match the bell housing and clutch assy and some have different bolt patterns. I ordered a steel one from FRPP back when they were FMS that had bolt on weights when I put a T5 behind my turbo'd 351w. It worked well. It's almost simpler to ditch you early 302 and install a 50oz 5.0 engine and sort out the tranny or find an old SROD 4 speed (3 speed with OD) from the mid 70's and install it. Looks just alike a top loader.

[luke-ao]

I have a fresh built 302 that has not even been fired yet, not ditching it. There's got to be a solution to bolt a 5 or 6 speed transmission to the older 302's.

I'm not worried about the clutch peddle, the flywheel seems to be the big issue.

[Ranchero50]

There was another thread where someone sell an adapter plate to mount a T5 to a T18 bellhousing. That way you'd use the same clutch and flywheel assy with the different tranny. If memory serves, both are 10 spline input shafts and I'd assume they are the same diameter.

[luke-ao]

When you speak of "imbalance" what is that referring to? (Which leads to my second question)
In theory if you could bolt a 50oz FW to an early 302 would it work properly? If so is there room for a machinist to redrill the holes?

[luke-ao]

I have a machine and fab shop so really what I'm trying to do is wrap my head around the parts and fitment issues.

[luke-ao]

So am I correct in thinking that if I purchased the bell housing, flywheel and clutch components to fit my 302, then purchase either a 5 or 6 speed trans (assuming they make an input shaft (?) that will spline with the clutch, all I would need to do is machine an adapter plate?

I understand some fab would be involved with the clutch peddle, cross member and drive line (length) etc.

[Ranchero50]

When you speak of "imbalance" what is that referring to? (Which leads to my second question)
In theory if you could bolt a 50oz FW to an early 302 would it work properly? If so is there room for a machinist to redrill the holes?

No, it shakes like a dog with the shits.

[Ranchero50]

So am I correct in thinking that if I purchased the bell housing, flywheel and clutch components to fit my 302, then purchase either a 5 or 6 speed trans (assuming they make an input shaft (?) that will spline with the clutch, all I would need to do is machine an adapter plate?

I understand some fab would be involved with the clutch peddle, cross member and drive line (length) etc.

Ford changed the bolt pattern in the Mustang II years. T5 is different from a top loader and most Tremec's. Some of the early V8 MII cable bells could be drilled for the early pattern but they were prone to cracking even when new. If I understand right, you can get an adapter to put a T5 onto an early bell housing. I don't know if that's a 4 pot T5 or the V8 one, they have different input shafts and guts, same for Fox or SN95's which use longer input shafts. Many moons ago we put a SN95 T5 into a Fox based '88 Turbo-Coupe by swapping the input shaft but it would only work for a couple of the later years ones with a Timken style bearing vs. the rollers from the early one. I haven't been in a T5 this decade so user beware.

I haven't done it or researched it myself so I'm loathe to say for sure what will work with regards to the splines. Not a big deal if you have the stuff laying around but... Google it and report back with what you find.

[Ranchero50]

Oh yeah, there were also a couple different flywheel / bell housing combos depending on the application. Mustangs used smaller diameter stuff. Fairlane was middle of the ground aluminum. The trucks used cast iron mothers with big wheels, 11" or so. Wheels were also drilled differently for diaphragm style or three finger pressure plates.

[67 hoopty]

Modern Driveline makes an adapter to mate a T5 to an older bellhousing. Should work for you.

[luke-ao]

Thanks, I'll look into that.