Just installed AOD, making whining noise, need help w/ diag

[71swb302]

Okay... undid TC nuts and attempted to move TC, had no movement. Tried to remove flywheel by pulling back transmission, that was no good. Ended up pulling motor and trans. Got everything apart and took some pictures.... There is a definite difference between the flywheels.

Here are some comparison photos, Flywheel on far left is from 5.0 foxbody that had aod, it even has AOD stamped on it, Flywheel in middle is new one I bought for 5.8, Its identical to the 5.0 except for weight. Far right is one that I pulled off motor. There is at least 1/8 or more difference in depth for the teeth. Hard to tell on TC holes...




Side by side, 5.8 AOD flyweel vs one I had on motor (Probably C6), hard to tell from pictures difference, but in person very obvious



Input shaft on transmission




Torque converter





Does it look like there was any damage done to pump? Or is there any way to tell.... I took it down the road last night and It did shift.

[71swb302]

From looking at some breakdowns of the AOD, it looks like if TC was too tight against pump, it would rub on the stator and cause metal to be shaved off. I dont see any signs of that. I think i'm going to drop the pan again just to make sure and see how it goes. Thanks again for all the help so far.

[Donnie]

Hi, I think that you have found your problem...Remember my info about the offset"s---A strait edge, long enough to sit on the conv. mounting pad's & a 6" machinest rule, & note pad & i think you are on the trail. You MUST have 1/8" clearance or "pull out" between the converter & the flexplate when bolting up.. If there is no clearance the converter will push the gears into the pump housing & you WILL ruin your pump.
All your splines look good, the small one drive's the direct clutch for 3rd & 4th, the center spline is your main input & the large spline connect's into the stator inside the converter...
I would like to see a picture of the converter turned a bit so I can see the flats that drive the pump, there are witness mark's there that will show you how deep the converter is going into the trans.
Also before re-installing the converter, I would suggest polishing the rust off of the hub with some 220 or finer paper, or you will be pulling it out to replace the front seal soon. Just cut a piece 2" by 6", then stand the conv. on edge, wrap the paper around the hub & roll the conv back & forth on the bench , it doesn't look bad, but I'd guess that it has seen the element's........hope that my info. is helpful..........Donnie

[71swb302]

Pictures make it look worse than it is, I cleaned it up before I put it back in... here are the only other photos I took before reinstalling. Hope you can tell from them, havent put the motor/trans back in yet.

[Donnie]

Just checkin' back to see how you are making out with this problem............Donnie

[71swb302]

Flywheel issue solved. Had a few more setbacks. Bought a lokar tv cable, set pressure in neutral with tool installed to 35psi. Took for drive. Not shifting out of first. Cleaned governor. Ran some seafoam transtune in it, was able to get 1-2 valve unstuck, but now not shifting out of 2nd. Think tranny VB is gummed up. Going to drop VB and clean it before tearing into trans.

[Donnie]

You are getting 1st & 2nd......is the i/2 shift on time or late? then you wind out in 2nd & when you let off the throttle to try & force a 2/3 shift does the engine hold back, like it is stuck in 2nd, or does the engine fall back to idle & the truck feel like it's in neutral.. I am wanting to see if the 2/3 shift valve is stroking.......Donnie

[71swb302]

1/2 shift was feeling soft sometimes and firmer others. Holding out 2nd till about 50mph and would not engine brake, acted like neutral unless you kept up to speed. I pulled vb last night. Going to clean it up. Had a little black residue on it, not a lot. Going to open it up tonight and see if 2-3 stuck.

[Donnie]

Ok, the 1/2 shift valve is returning, either the 2/3 is hanging up or not receiving a gov signal.. The rod/ cable adj is VERY critical on these units.
You already know that. 2nd is letting go, but 3rd is not applying...If you have too much throttle pressure (controlled by the cable) the gov cannot overcome that pressure to signal a 2/3 shift.... CHECK YOUR ADJUSTMENT ! ! You sound pretty knowledgeable & seem to know where you are going....These valve bodies are a PITA to work on..some end plugs refuse to move out of their bore..Some are threaded for a small screw & a mini slide hammer to assist you.
If the end plug will not come out so you can clean the bore, you can drill the plug , tap it for a small screw & pull it out. Be careful prying on the aluminum housing with a small screwdriver as you are gonna want to do...The housing is softer than the valves.
Do you know the procedure of slamming valve bodies? Or tapping valves with a small screwdriver & a 3/4 inch wrench.?? If not ask, I'll explain.
Also the black material is either coming from a burned out 3/4 clutch or probably from the stator caps in the converter,,
As I stated in another post somewhere, there are NO BEARINGS in this converter, both sides of the stator uses Bakelite material for the thrust surfaces & they are a HIGH failure item,,,Most GOOD rebuilders replace the rear side thrust washer with an aftermkt. bearing..The factory does not.
.........................GOOD LUCK & let me know what you find in the valve body..................Donnie

[71swb302]

Messed with it a little last night, checked 1-2 valve and 2-3 valve, both moved freely, found TV limit valve was stuck, got it free, shot a plug retaining clip somewhere in my garage so I gave up last night until I find it .

I've heard a method of slamming valve body against some cardboard on level ground, but would like to hear anything you've got.

Only knowledge I have on these transmissions is what I've learned in the past few weeks. I used to be intimidated by them, but after understanding the basic principles, there not as bad to me. I'm going to pickup a ATSG manual for it if I have to go any further.

Thanks for the advice. Maybe she be going by the end of next month hehe

[Donnie]

Bummer, I gave you all the info on pulling end plugs, but forgot to warn you about those " hold a rag over me or I will take flight retainer clips"
Once they get past center, or 1/2 way out, they want to go away...Hope you have a clean shop & a vague idea where it went..Get your broom, a strong light , & a magnet bar if you have one...go trolling.........Good luck......
Slamming valve bodies is a method used to free up sticking valves....You must have a FLAT SURFACE a bit larger than the valve body that you are working on...Flat like a granite stone or a machinest's table......I have a 24" x 24" x 1" table on wheels that I used to use...You do not need anything that size, I used mine for other general machine work...
The WORD here is FLAT..........not even the top of your work bench, unless it is really flat,,,
Don't pick up the valve body & try to slam it as it is likely that you will not hit the table squarely.A warped casting will hang a lot of valves.
After washing it really clean & plucking all the valves, you can sometimes free up a stubborn valve using this method:
Stand the body on edge on your flat surface, hold it with one hand & lightly flop it down on the table, so that it hit's the table squarely.
This will embed any miniscule particles into the housing, on that side of the casting..do this a couple of times until you are familiar with what you are trying to achive........Then turn the body over & making sure that all valves are seated in their bores, use a small good quality screw driver and working down in the worm tracks, give each valve a tap to the left & to the right as much of an angle as you can, this will embed the same matter into the housing on the other side..MAKE SURE THAT THE VALVES ARE SEATED & only tap on the area BETWEEN the lands of the valve.
If you tap on the valve land you will ruin it..ONLY BETWEEN the LAND's...use a 3/4 inch wrench for your "tapper"....hope that makes sense....
Your choice of manual's is spot on........ATSG & ATRA.......manuals are the best you can buy..........best wishes, Donnie

[71swb302]

Update: Found retainer, tore down entire valve body with aid of ATSG guide. Cleaned and checked for sticking. TV limit was stuck closed. Slamming didn't help, used your screwdriver 3/4 tapping method, worked great!

Lots of fine black junk in 1-2 Accum, but rest of VB wasn't too bad. Put everything back together. Went over Lokar cable setup and set TV right at 37psi warm w/ tool in neutral. Took for a drive. 1-2 not shifting till letting off gas at part throttle. Turned around and opened it up WOT, great 1-2, held 2nd till got to driveway. pressure spiked to 100psi+ and held it until put in park.

Something Is still not right in VB. Ended up ordering another one for about $50 bucks from WIT. Will see how it goes. I really think that should take care of it. VB is probably warped. Was able to get 1-2,2-3 to shift a few times w/ no slipping. Will keep posted.

Thanks again, Joe

[71swb302]

Installed new rebuilt VB from WIT. Had to pull it due to some assembly issues, rebuilder had left out a check ball and switched pressure relief valves around.

Everything is shifting great now... Only thing that I'm not sure is normal is, it takes a little gas to get going. Have to rev it up to about 1800 rpm before it will go anywhere from a standstill. Doesn't matter if its reverse or drive. Other than that its good.

Could this be a cause for concern ?

Thanks Joe

[71swb302]

I think I figured it out, tapped main line on trans and not getting enough pressure to engage reverse servo unless I give it some gas. Think either pump was damaged from earlier mishap or running that transtune cleaned up the seals a little too well and caused them to leak.

Looks like its time to tear into it. I've watched a few videos on tearing one down and with the ATSG manual. I think its something I can tackle. I know more once I get into it.

Thanks for the help on this, definitley learned alot so far.

[71swb302]

I decided to give it one last go after finding out VB I got from WIT was used and not rebuilt. I went through my old VB again and gave it heck, cleaned and seated valves really good, stuck it back on and working tons better now. The used VB I installed had a massive pressure leak from boost valve and was only get 1/2 the pressure it should, so I returned it. I've made a few trips around town and all is well so far. Glad to get her back on the road.... now the question is, what do I want to tear into next . Maybe some higher gears than the 3.00 I have now....looking for a little more "seat of your pants" feel.

Thanks once again for all the advice, I love this site!