How easy is it to remove a T18 with the engine remaining?

[robroy]

Good morning!

How would you compare the difficulty of removing a T18 with the engine installed, or removing it with the engine not installed?

I haven't decided 100% yet whether or not to rebuild my T18 before installing the new engine; my decision will be based in part on the answer to this question. I don't want to make a lot of unnecessary work for myself a little down the road.

Thank you!
-Robroy

[FORDification]

If you've got the front sheetmetal and core support off, it's easy to pull the engine/transmission as a unit. Most engine hoists won't go high enough to clear the support. I've seen the pics of your project area, and it appears you're doing this outside...which means that with an install engine, trying to manhandle that heavy transmission into place on anything but level concrete, especially by yourself, is gonna be a major PIA. On a project truck that's not running yet, and I was doing this by myself, I'd remove/install the engine/transmission as a unit, even if it meant a little extra time removing the front clip. It would just be a whole lot less trouble IMO.

However, removing it when the engine is already out of the truck is pretty easy. It's just a couple more bolts to remove at the crossmember and then lowering it down with a hydraulic jack. But when it's time to reinstall, I'd definitely attach it to the engine first and then install the two together.

[robroy]

Keith, thanks for your excellent reply.

You're right that I'd be attempting this outdoors on a funky gravel/dirt surface. So it sounds like it is way easier to deal with the transmission now since the engine and front clip are removed. It sounds like trying to swap the transmission once the engine is installed would be a big deal by myself in the dirt.

I like the idea of installing the transmission and engine together as a unit; that does sound way easier.

Maybe I'll go ahead and have the transmission rebuild, then bolt it to the back of the engine, then install them as a unit.

Thanks for your great advice Keith,

-Robroy

[fireguywtc]

If you are going to have the trans rebuilt at some point I think it's best to go ahead and do it while you are this far into your project. As long as funds allow, I think it's always best to get as much done now, that way you don't have to worry about it later, no extra work later on and a great trans working like new with your new motor. Also with your manual trans, once you have it rebuilt it should be trouble free for the next 30-40 years with proper manintance.

[robroy]

Hey Bill, thanks for your reply! I think your suggestion is wise.

The main reason I was considering letting the T18 be as-is is that I was thinking that I might swap it out for a transmission that shifts more nicely at high RPMs.

But even if I decide to do this a year or two down the road, I would have had a year or two of very pleasurable driving with a nice new T18. So there's not much wrong with that. And since the T18 seems pretty simple, it probably won't cost much to have it rebuilt (relatively). I'm guessing $500 to $1,000 to hire a shop in my area to do it (if I bring it to them and pick it up when it's done).

And if it will make it easier to install the engine, all the better!

Thanks Bill!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Good morning!

Is it so much easier to install the transmission and engine as a single unit that I might want to remove the transmission and bolt it all up outside of the truck, even if I'm not going to rebuild the transmission?

If I'd known all this I sure would have removed the old engine and transmission together!

Thanks!
-Robroy

[FORDification]

Easiest: Install engine/tranny as a combo
Harder: Hook up transmission to installed engine
Hardest (almost impossible): Hooking up engine to installed transmission

[robroy]

Keith, thanks for the clarification.

OK this basically means it's coming out of there one way or another!

Thanks again Keith.

-Robroy

[sideoilerfe]

I've done the hardest and the harder! In a Hi-boy 4x4, I removed a bad 435 and replaced the clutch, flywheel and replaced the old 435 with a better one...wasn't that hard.

I also removes an engine in the same truck with no difficulty at all. Now, installing it was fun! We had to wrestle it around a bit but it went in fairly easy. I also replaced a C6 in a 70 F250 once with the engine still installed...not that bad.

I agree with Keith, install the engine/tranny as a unit. It's the easiest way.

[robroy]

Hey SideOilerFE,

Thanks for the confirmation on Keith's advice. At this point, I'm definitely going to remove the T18 and have it rebuild, then install it on to the engine while the engine's out of the vehicle. I'm a novice mechanic and will be working alone, in the dirt, so this advice really helps me a lot.

Plus, I kind of wanted to have the T18 rebuilt anyways, since the T18 as-is makes it difficult for friends to drive the truck, since 3rd and reverse are tough to distinguish between. And I know friends are going to want to drive this when it's on the road!

Thanks again!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Hi Folks! Now that I'm using my imagination to mentally remove my T18 before the weekend, I've come up with a few more questions:

1. I'm sure I need to remove the bell housing from the T18 before removing it right? And is there any mystery to doing this, or are there very obvious bolts I need to remove?
2. Could anybody explain to me how to remove the shift lever from the top of the transmission? I'll look in the manual but it would help to have a quick overview from somebody who has done it before.
3. Should I drain all the oil to make it lighter, or is this not worth the bother?
4. I have a regular alligator/floor jack, and I can see the T18 rolling off of it really easily. I've seen special transmission jacks in catalogs before. Do I need one of these? Or is there something I can attach to my existing floor jack to make it work? At least my floor jack is good (Made in USA).
5. Is there any special trick to removing the drive shaft from the transmission output? Or is that straightforward?

Thanks very much for all the outstanding advice!
-Robroy

[kaptnkaos]

Just a word here... (I wrote this yesterday before other postings, but couldn't post it for some reason)

I just did that whole scene with on my '68 CS 390/NP435.
Something I didn't see mentioned is that you will need to remove the tranny hump and the shifter.
To remove the shifter, you have to push down and turn the retainer. It's spring loaded and there is a notch on each side of the retainer.
If you are going to pull the unit whole, you don't want to disconnect the bell housing.
I pulled mine by dropping the tranny first
If you are going to drop the tranny first, then just remove the 4 large bolts that bolt it to the bell housing. Much easier to remove the bell housing after it is out.
You will also need to remove the "Z" bar. It goes between the frame and the engine block to actuate the clutch lever.
Make sure that all the wiring connecters are marked where they go before removing.
Disconnect the engine ground and throttle trapeze, motor mounts and tranny mounts before pulling...
I fought with one one time that I forgot to remove the tranny mount...
The drive shaft should just unbolt from the tranny tail shaft. (2 u-bolts)
I bought a tranny jack to do mine with... without the truck being jacked up there wasn't enough clearance to actually use it.
Basically all it did was hold the tranny in place, when I removed the rest of the bolts.
I had the tranny all strapped in and had to wrestle it off of the jack to and get the jack out from under the truck, because there wasn't enough clearance with it on the jack.
There is an adapter available to convert your floor jack into a tranny jack. I've never actually seen or used one.
I have used a piece of 2x8 under the tranny.
I have also heard of using a 4x4 or something inside across the hump hole and a come-a-long to drop the tranny with... I've never done this... lots of different ways to skin a cat

When putting the unit (engine and trans) back in, we had a heck of time getting the top of the trans to clear the firewall.
It would have been a lot easier if the front end had been jacked up and blocked so the unit could go in at more of an angle...
As it was, we ended up having to remove the top cover of the tranny (which if I remember right is what the book said to do).
Then, it went in like soft butter on hot toast...
Oh and make sure to disconnect the back up light switch connector and speedo cable when you pull it.
The guys that were helping me pull the engine and tranny out of the '71 CS with a 390/c6 combo forgot to do that, and tore the cable out of the tranny.

KaptnKA S

[willowbilly3]

Easiest: Install engine/tranny as a combo
Harder: Hook up transmission to installed engine
Hardest (almost impossible): Hooking up engine to installed transmission

I have done the last 2 of those the most. I have always found installing the combo to be extremely awkward with the front sheet metal on.
I have used a cherry picker through the door to change trannys and once I even used some 4x4 through the doors and another one across that to the dash to change one with a cable hand hoist.
At any rate I have always took out the tunnel cover to change 4 speed trannys.

[Alvin in AZ]

kaptnkaos wrote: {newsgroup style}
> Something I didn't see mentioned is that you will need to remove the tranny hump and the shifter.

Are bump-sides and dent-sides that much different? :/
In my '75 I leave the gear shift lever attached as much as I can and use it as a balancing lever. LOL :)
{edit: oops I seen later where you didn't raise your pickup}

> I pulled mine by dropping the tranny first

Me too, every time.

> I bought a tranny jack to do mine with...

I've always used bricks and 2 by 4s. LOL :)
And have done it by myself using that method too.
Heck a T18's only 150 pounds. {edit: bell=32 myflywheel=29 pressureplate=23}
But I have an engine hoist now and will use it next time.
My bellhousing is crooked on the engine I figure...
...the clutch hasn't lasted more than about 20,000 miles each time since it was new (got it 34 years ago this month)
I've got a dial caliper after doing my ford 9 inch so I'll check it next time.
In the mean time tho the clutch is doing pretty dangged good at 18,000 because I used a 6303 sealed ball bearing
instead of the "bronze" bearing.

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/bushing&remover.jpg
(7/16-20 bolt and a "grinder modified" nut:)

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/guidepins.jpg
I made those in '79 with my first clutch repair.
I dog-nosed them on the last repair a couple years ago.

With the transmission resting on those and the rear frame cross member...
...the sucker'll slide out of there like it's on rails! :)
The trick is not to make them too long these are 7/16-14 grade-5 bolts.
{edit: they are 5+3/4" OAL}
{if I did it again I'd make one 6" and the other 5+1/2"}
{one side can't be more than the 5+3/4" on a T18 don't know nuthin about NP435's :/}

> ...without the truck being jacked up there wasn't enough clearance to actually use it.

Holy mackerel! :/
Set that think up on 8x8x16 cement blocks. :)

> Basically all it did was hold the tranny in place, when I removed the rest of the bolts.
> I had the tranny all strapped in and had to wrestle it off of the jack to and get the jack out from under the truck,
> because there wasn't enough clearance with it on the jack.

Cool. :)
I have the bottom/base of an old washing machine that came with wheels, it's close to the ground.
Early on, I'd lift it up from the inside using tie down straps and a helper would remove blocks and I set it back down.
Worked both ways going up or down. Just a few inches at a time.

> I have also heard of using a 4x4 or something inside across the hump hole and a come-a-long to drop the tranny with...
> I've never done this... lots of different ways to skin a cat
> KaptnKA 8) S

BTDT with a piece of pipe supported on metal milk baskets sitting on either side of the hump.
That was tricky business and I don't recommend it unless you figure out a better way to support your cross beam.

Other than my additions and other BS...
"yeah what he said! :)"

Alvin in AZ '75 F150 360FE T18 2wd 133" wide-bed no-radio no-chrome
ps- next time I pull my engine I'm going to pull the tranmission first then the engine and put it back transmission last.
pps- oh yeah... I pull my seat out, it comes out easy I ran a tap through the captive nuts in the floor and I remove
the back from the seat too.
ppps- you can do it no sweat, all by yourself if needs be! :)