The C6 saga (long post)

[kawasakifreak77]

Hearing stories like this is why I've always ran manuals after my first truck, great read man!

[fordman]

he is charging admission for the final parts. now that he has us all hooked

[Sharkdance]

Sorry for the delay in continuing the C6 Saga. Right after I finished that last post, I promptly came down with severe cold/flu symptoms that parked my butt in bed for the last two days. Still feelin weak, but at least coherent now

Looking back, I probably did stretch things out a bit with too much detail. Im no writer, but I do enjoy telling a story. But Ill try and finish it up today.
So here goes.

******** Continued from earlier post ******

After studying the shop manual a few more times overnight I began the next morning by re-organizing all of the parts and re-inspecting everything to make sure I wasnt missing some vital part or overlooking some damage.
While my attention to detail might seem overkill I figured I couldnt be too careful on my first ever automatic transmission rebuild.

One of the first things I noticed about the rebuild kit that I bought was that there were about 15-20 extra O-rings that werent used in my transmission. Also, the kit included the wrong type of modulator valve. My old one was a screw in type, the one in the kit was held in by a tab and bolt.
Everything that I did need (except for that) matched up perfectly. So I figured the differences in the kit and my transmission are because they included parts for a Cruise-O-Matic transmission as well as a C6.
No big deal, But I just couldnt help but wondering how much less expensive the kit would have been if I didnt have to purchase all of the extra parts I didnt need with it.

So with the case standing up right (bell housing up) I began re-assembling the guts of my original C6. Most of it went quite easy. Kind of like putting together a puzzle. Everything fits precisely together.
Thing is, gravity works. And if your not paying attention, something will fall out of line and you wont even know it. A thrust washer, a needle bearing, etc. any one thing either missing or not properly placed and lined up can cause internal failure in an automatic transmission.
So I put it together once - then took it apart and put it together again. Im glad I did because the second time I noticed one of the thrust washers had fallen out of line. If I had tightened down the front pump like that I would have crushed it and been left in the same situation I started in. Plus that was when I noticed that I had forgotten to install the big wide band into the case before assembling the rotating assemblies into the case. (I would have had to take it back apart anyway. Theres no way to put the band in after the drums are installed. Not that I could see anyway.)
So, third times a charm right?
I got it all back together, was satisfied that nothing was crushed, broken, or installed in the wrong order. Could turn everything fairly easily by hand. So after a celebratory beer I buttoned it up and torqued down the front pump bolts.
*Problem*
I could no longer turn it over by hand. Tightening down the front pump seemed to lock everything up.
I didnt know what to do, loosening it (the front pump) would loosen the assembly again but as soon as I torqued it back down I couldnt move it by hand anymore.
Checking the shop manual/checking online did nothing for me as there was no mention of whether or not I should be able to turn over an assembled automatic transmission by hand.
I remembered that I could turn over the old one by hand but that was when it was full of fluid and had burned up friction plates as well.
Other possible problems were that my original front drum had 6 friction plates in it but the kit I bought only came with 5 friction plates for that drum.
I know I probably should have waited and ordered the missing friction plate but after checking the spare transmission I discovered that it had a drum with only 5 friction plates in it.
I was out of money, frustration began to get the best of me, so I swapped out the 6 disk drum for the 5 disk drum rationalizing that because I was using the thrust washers out of the spare transmission that I should use the same 5 disk front drum from that transmission as well. Maybe that would correct end play and it wouldnt lock up when I tightened down the front pump.
Further reading taught me that six disk drums are used for heavy duty applications and are interchangeable with 5 disk drums as long as you change the entire drum assembly and check the gap between the last steel and the snap ring that holds the friction plates in. The difference apparently is inside the drum, (internal depth) not the outside dimensions like thrust surface to thrust surface. (top to bottom)
One of the guys where I work told me that an old racers trick was to grind out an old 5 disk drum to make room for a 6th disk to try and get more grab from an automatic.
I figure that my original transmission had a 6 disk drum in it because it came out of a 3/4 ton truck and the spare transmission had a 5 disk drum in it because it came out of an 1/2 ton truck.
If I am wrong about any of this - somebody please correct me. I dont wish to give bad information.
Anyway - I would have rather of used the 6 disk drum but money/time/frustration forced me to use what I have instead.
I figured as long as I saved that drum I could always use it in a build up of my spare transmission.

Anyway - everything swapped around - back together - front pump tightened down - and still no way to turn it over by hand.
Studying my book some more made me realize that I was supposed to soak the friction plates in clean transmission fluid before installing them. (I didnt)
Instead, I put them in dry. Could that be why I cant roll it over by hand?
Next day I asked some of the guys at work and I got mixed answers - meaning - no one really knew for sure?
One guy told me to just put it in and fill it up - the plates are gonna get fluid anyway. Said it wont matter if their dry or not as long as they get fluid before I drop it into gear.
Others said they might stick together and burn up pre-maturely.
I didnt know, Me I was getting more and more frustrated but still had a good feeling about having put everything together correctly.
I figured that if I had to take it apart again - I could do it. But not without at least trying it out first.
If something broke now - best to know it before dis- assembling this thing again.
So I just hung it up there under the truck this time. Completely hooked up except for the drive shaft, front cross member, and exhaust.
By now my neighbors are used to me periodically starting up my truck with open headers and I didnt wanna have to go thru all of that work installing/removing the pipes and mufflers if this tranny didnt work.
5 quarts in - start it up - check the fluid - another 3 quarts in - check the fluid - another quart in - level seemed to be holding steady. No major noises from the tranny (that I could hear over the exhaust - maybe open headers wasnt a good idea)
By now everything was getting hot enough to burn off the greasy oily hand prints from everything and I figured it was now or never. With no drive shaft I could drop it into gear and watch for the rear yoke to move.
I did - and it did. It started by shuddering and then seemed like it caught and started moving. The next few minutes were spent going thru all of the gears and checking the yoke for movement then re-checking the fluid level.
By the time I shut it down, reverse was reverse - and all 3 forward gears were obvious because the yoke would pick up speed with each upward gear selection.
I was happy - I felt good - I figured this is probably gonna work.

Let it cool down - put the drive shaft in - cross member and exhaust on - start it back up - check the fluid again - and go for a test drive.......

Nothing in the world could have wiped the grin off my face. IT WORKED!
BY GAWD IT WORKED!!
I went around the block several times. Stopping - starting - going thru the gears manually - letting it shift automatically - everything was hunky dory!
I was really really proud of myself!
Even did a victory power braked burn-out in front of my house before pulling it back into the driveway.

[craftsman]

Good job fills good
I have 2 c6 trans in the garage and i cannot turn either one by hand, without the torque converter in place. With tc in they turn just fine. I think it's normal
Did you take any photos?

[fordman]

thats great those things arent too hard to rebuild. i have a question. did you take the vavle body apart and rclean it up and replace the gasket? and were you able to replace the seals in the drums under the piston? i know your trans works and its not a problem if you didnt do these things i am just wondering what you did to these parts?

[averagef250]

That's awesome! Great to hear you tore into it and didn't give up!

Reading your story I fealt like I was right back to the first time I ever opened a tranny up. Coming to the same realizations along the way, making the same goofs and checking and double checking.

The drum seals are a major PITA without a snapress. Did you manage to replace them or did you just skip them?

I buy my tranny parts from several different wholesalers and the funny thing is they all come with different parts. A lot of times they literally come with dozens and dozens of extra parts made for other applications because the kit is made to cover a huge year span.

[wt4speed#2]

Man that was more exciting than the last Longarm novel I read.
Sharky glad you shared and great to hear your on the road again.Time for a career move I hear aamco is hiring nationwide

[MadMaxetc]

Great to hear it is working for ya!!

I rebuilt my T5, and that was fun...sounds like the C6 is the same way...lots of complicated parts...that are not complicated at all.

[Thunderfoot]

Glad it all worked out and thanks for the story it was really good
Hope you get to feeling better also...

[Sharkdance]

craftsman,

That is the only regret I have. I didnt take any photos.
I wanted to, but never had the camera out in the garage with me while I was working on the tranny plus I was waaay too dirty to handle it during the job anyway.

fordman,

I didnt take the valve body apart. I only removed it and set it aside while doing all of the described work then re-installed it as a unit.
I know I probably should have. But was too nervous to dis- assemble it at the same time I had everything else laid out all over the bench. Plus I was running out of room.
Im not as scared of it now as I was then though - so I think I will tackle that task at a later date. For now it works fine though.
Your right about the drum seals too. I didnt change them either.
Truthfully, I didnt even know there were seals under that big spring until I was in the process of putting it back together.
I did try to pull the clips out of the bottom of the drums to expose them, but without a proper spring press I was afraid I wouldnt be able to get them back in safely.
Now I that I know what to expect Im not as scared of those either - so I figure Ill tackle those and learn in the process as I did with the rest of the job.
In short. Im gonna consider this first build as an successful experiment. And I plan on using my newly found knowledge as a basis for an more extensive build up of my spare tranny using the six disk drums that I have saved from the 3/4 ton tranny.
Ill even try to take photos this time.

averagef250,

Thanks.
Good to know that even someone who has done this before can still remeber what its like, how it feels, the learning process/curve that goes into delving into the unknown and the joy of having it actually work when your done.
And now using what Ive learned, Ive found a local transmission shop that will sell me only what I need for my next build. And better quality parts too.
The guy actually sounded excited about talking with me about how I did it all myself and offered tips to make my next build even easier.

wt4speed#2,

Glad you enjoyed the story. And Im proud to be able to drive my truck again - having fixed it myself gives me a great feeling of pride.
As for a career move? Me thinks NOT!! LOL

MadMaxetc,

Thanks,
Yup - bunch-O-parts. But not that complicated. (sorta)

Thunderfoot,

Thanks,
Glad you like the story. And yes, Im feeling better now that Im over the flu bug.
This one was a really nasty one. Chills/Fever/Congestion that made me lose two full days of work and an entire week end. Plus, my poor wife and kids tried to take care of me and caught it too. So when I started feeling better, they all started feeling sick too.
Were all feeling better now - but still not fully out of it.
I hope everyone else stays healthy/lucky enough not to go thru this mess too.

[Sharkdance]

I have one more part to this Saga to tell...... Sort of a lesson learned.

Remember when I said that the kit I purchased came with the wrong modulator valve?
Well I re-used my old one when I put my transmission back together.
Yes, I know their cheep - and yes I know I should have just bought a new one. But I was short on money and wasnt even sure the tranny was going to work when I just "hung" it back up in there "just to test it".
I told myself I was gonna get one as soon as I knew whether or not it even worked. (but neglected to do it right away)

Anyway - enough excuses.

After finishing buttoning everything up. And doing my little test drive. (Complete with burnout)
I figured I should drive my truck to work the next day (just to show off) and to heat it up once real good and make sure all was gonna stay working.
Well I didnt have any problem getting to work, or leaving from work that day.
But on the way home I took an little side trip that leads me down one of my favorite stretches of highway.
Its about an 11 mile stretch with very light traffic and I frequently like to take this particular rout home just for the excuse of "opening the truck up" a little.
Namely an excuse to bust the normal 65-75MPH that I usually drive and allow the FE to breathe a little past 85-100MPH. (just for that short stretch of coarse)

Well.... as usual my truck ran pretty good at that speed and as anyone who has heard an FE with headers and a lightly restricted exaust at over 4500RPM can tell you... It sounded good too.
Was fun - had no problems - and felt good to make that run again.

Wasnt until I got off the highway and stopped at the next red light that I noticed a couple of puffs of white smoke out of my right tailpipe.
When the light turned green, the couple of puffs got thicker - then by the next light, billowing.
What the??
Another block up where I could pull over I started thinking I busted a ring or something in the motor but it was still running good and not making any noises.
Shutting it down and getting out of the truck told the tale.
Left pipe dry - right pipe wet and dripping. (white smoke still trailing from pipe)
The old vacuum modulators diaphragm had popped and filled my right muffler up with transmission fluid.
Luckily I was only a few blocks from home by then so I cut the line an inch from the intake manifold vacuum source and pinched it off. Then drove my new F250 mosquito sprayer home and promptly parked it till I could get a new vacuum modulator.

Ive since replaced the modulator and vacuum line. Run the truck enough to burn out all of the residual transmission fluid from the muffler where it dont smoke anymore. And learned another lesson....... ALWAYS REPLACE YOUR MODULATOR WHEN YOU REBUILD YOUR TRANNY!

[72stepside]

Well I for one let out a little YEAH when you said it worked.

You have inspired me to give a tranny rebuild a shot on the F-250. Between my father and I, we should be able to handle this with a good manual and lots of patience. I was thinking of swapping in a 4 speed but not anymore!

Good job once again!

[fordman]

the reason i asked about the valve body is becasue everyone i have ever taken aprt would work when i put it back together. those little ball always fall out and i never knew exactly where they came from

[averagef250]

The books tell you exactly where the balls go and you can almost always tell by the wear to the seperator plate/case where the balls go anyway.

[fordman]

i didnt have abook at the time. and i couldn't see all the wear markes so i had to guess on some. it didnt work i got one from ajunk yard and it worked fine.