The C6 saga (long post)

[Sharkdance]

For those who dont know me, I own a 70 F250 2WD 360/C6 Long Bed.
It had major rust and wiring issues so a little over a year ago, I bought a 72 F100 2WD 360/C6 Long Bed for parts.
Shortly afterwards I spent 8-10 months swapping cabs, wiring harnesses and anything else I could salvage from the donor truck (the 72) over to my 70.
All of this was done in my back yard working on week ends with limited time/money and tools.
Twas a lot of work but I was glad to have done it.
After all of that, I began driving my truck again on a daily basis back and forth to work as I had to rely on it for basic transportation.

Anyway, on the the transmission saga....

In the 5 plus years that I have owned my truck I had very few problems with the transmission. It did exhibit the standard tired C6 symptoms of a well used automatic transmission but never left me stranded or problematic to drive in traffic.
It used to have the normal (for a tired tranny) cold start slow to drop into gear kinda slushy shift signs plus it leaked fluid in the driveway when parked there hot.
All stuff that I knew I needed to fix but figured Id do it when I got around to it.
It didnt help much that I drove the piss out of that transmission and pulled anything that I could hook to the trailer hitch including the 72 Donor truck I already mentioned in this post.
I had a floor shifter so even in my normal daily driving I force shifted that poor transmission like a manual valve body and generally abused it more than I should have because it was just fun to drive it that way. Plus - I didnt mind knowing that I was tearing up that existing transmission because then I would have an excuse to finally swap in the spare transmission that I had in my garage from the 72 donor truck. (I had saved it because the PO told me it was good)

Welp - the time finally came when that poor abused transmission started showing its wear. It started shuddering and began make strange noises when /if it decided to shift. Thats when I knew its time had come.
The process of this destruction was about 8-9 months of solid abuse.

No big deal. ( I thought)

I had no business abusing a truck that I relied on for daily transportation like that but like I said I had the spare tranny in the home garage and Im fortunate enough to work at an automotive dealership where we have free use of the shop on week ends. The only rule is that you have to clean up after yourself and you cant have anything left on the rack come the following Monday.

So I bought a new C6 filter kit, a case of type F fluid and a new front and rear seal and then loaded up the spare transmission into the bed of the truck for a trip to the shop so I could swap them out and have my truck back in working order by Saturday afternoon at the latest.

I limped the truck up there and used the pressure washer to clean up the spare transmission before starting the transplant.
Then I racked my truck and began the process of removing the bad tranny. Pretty basic stuff. Within 45 minutes I had the drive shaft out, the torque converter nuts off and all of the bellhousing bolts out and the transmission jack under it when I discovered that the lift that the whole truck was sitting 5&1/2 feet in the air on was interfering with me removing the bolts of the front crossmember.
The problem was that the rack I was using isnt designed for an 8 foot bed 3/4 ton truck, their actually only supposed to fit a compact or midsized car.
So I had to spend the next 45 minutes re-positioning and re-racking everything to continue the extraction of the old transmission.
After that - I could continue removing the front crossmember for the first time in my trucks 37 years of existence. Needless to say, A large hammer was in order because they are really wedged in there even after you remove all of the next to impossible to get to bolts.
Finally - the old tranny was out and the bolt on yoke was removed. Thats when I realized that I had never tried the bolt on 3/4 ton yoke on the splines of the 1/2 ton donor transmission. I began to get nervous.
It proved to be a non issue as it turned out to be a direct swap and I finished that task by knocking in the new rear seal and torquing down the rear yoke nut.
That done, it was time to install the new front seal, torque converter, and filter. No problems there as the donor tranny was on the ground in front of the still racked truck. I didnt care for the condition of the old fluid in the donor transmission but remembered that the previous owner of my donor truck told me it was good and figured it was too late for me to turn back now. Time was running down before the shop was gonna be locked up with or without me still in it and Ill be damed if I was gonna go thru all of this just to put the same bad tranny back in my truck.
So in the truck went the donor transmission with new seals and a new filter kit and pan gasket.
No problems - just the normal aggravation of re-installing the drive shaft, tranny lines, shifter linkage, bellhousing bolts. and lining up then re-tightening the torque converter bolts. Not to mention persuading the crossmember back in with a hammer and skinning a few knuckles re-tightening the top bolts of the crossmember to the frame.

Satisfied that all was done I cleaned up and put away the transmission jack and let the truck down off the lift. Put about 4 quarts of new fluid in it and started her up. After idling a few minutes I checked the fluid level, added another quart, then began moving the shifter to cycle the valve body thru the foreward and reverse gears so I could check and correct the fluid level again before taking a test drive. (I was feeling happy with myself)
Thats when I discovered that when I moved the shifter to reverse, the truck dropped into what felt like drive. (or at least a foreward gear not a reverse gear)
No big deal. (I thought) I must just have the linkage adjusted off or something.

No dice - I checked - re-checked and triple checked everything and could come up with no reason the truck only had a foreward gear no matter what gear I selected with the shifter. Something was obviously wrong.

So here I was - all alone in the shop and running out of time to get out of there before it got locked up. Knowing that if my truck was still on the rack by Monday morning I was going to be in trouble with my boss not to mention teased by the technicians that I worked with for not being able to complete a simple job like swapping out a transmission in an old truck like mine.

What to do.......

I finished cleaning up the mess I made on the shop floor. Put the original bad tranny in the bed of my truck and pushed it out of the shop into the parking lot before the shop was locked up. With about 30 minutes to spare.
I called my wife to come pick me up from the shop and made arrangements to trailer my truck back home the next day. ( I wasnt happy any more)

*** Story continued in the next post *******

[basketcase0302]

Sharkdance,

Good to see you back man.

That's a lot of work for a short time frame to complete!
Something to do with the valve body or the selector shaft maybe?

Jeff

[spartman]

Sounds about like the luck I had when I tried to put a T-18 into my truck.

Did you know you really cant easily put a fixed yolk tranny into a swb truck?

I am either gonna need to get a 2pc driveshaft cut down or get a different tranny.

Funny thing is, it will cost the same either way.

[Sharkdance]

***** Continued from previous post ******

The next day was Sunday. The shop was closed but at least my truck wasnt locked up inside of the shop itself. However.....
When I got there Sunday morning I realized that my truck was still behind the front gate. The gate was locked of course. With a pad lock and chain.
I had no key and couldnt cut the chain without REALLY getting into trouble with my boss.
I was fortunate enough to have locked my tool boxes up in the cab of my truck. I could have just given up and left it there but I REALLY wanted to get my truck back home so I could figure out what was wrong with it and not have to have my wife take me back and forth to work all week the next week. Not to mention the major strings I had to pull to get another truck and trailer borrowed and back up to the shop just to get my 70 back home and off the shops compound before Monday morning when everyone showed up for work.
Welp - Im not proud of the next thing I did and I probably could have gotten into more trouble than if I had just left the truck there (my boss isnt a complete ass - he would have understood) but I wound up removing the rollers from the opposite end of the gate and sliding it inward just enough to squeeze my truck out of the compound.
The front gate was one of those big cast iron things on rollers so I was able to climb over the gate and get to my wrenches thus effectively breaking OUT of the compound and not in.
All was fine because I didnt break or cut anything, didnt damage any company property and was able to reinstall the rollers to the gate with no evidence that I had even been there. (Although Im sure if a cop had seen me I would have looked suspicious)

Anyway - With my truck now on the correct side of the gate I was able to just drive it up onto the trailer since it did at least have one forward gear.
Chain it down, get it home, get it unloaded, and get the borrowed truck and trailer back to where they belonged.

Back home I spent the rest of the day trying to figure out what was wrong with the donor transmission that I had just installed into my truck.
One forward gear - no reverse - had to be a valve body issue. But I was sure the valve body in my old C6 had to be bad as well so I gave up and had my wife take me to work the next morning. Man I was pissed!
Lesson learned - NEVER trust what a previous owner tells you.

The truck sat in the driveway the next week while I tried to line up another used one or come up with the money to have my original one rebuilt.
My wife (bless her heart) chauffeured me back and forth to work all that week without complaint. (She also has my 3 kids to get to school in the mornings so this is no easy task for her)
Anyway - the prices I was quoted from every shop in town for even a basic bench job rebuilding my old transmission was completely out of my budget. (which is nill)
I was however able to find another used one from a reputable bone yard that offered a 30 day money back guarantee for $150.00 delivered to my shops door.
I didnt have the money but my wife did some creative bill shuffling for the month and somehow found the $150. in our budget to get my truck back on the road.
I bought it - he delivered it - and a friend of mine helped me get it home from work by that Friday.

Now I had all week end to swap out another tranny. But this time in my driveway - on the ground - with a floor jack. (what I was trying to avoid doing by taking it to the shop the first time)

Bright and early Saturday morning I started removing the second bad tranny.
The wrench work went a lot easier because it had just been installed the week before. But the yanking, pulling, balancing act that it took to lower a full tranny to the ground on a floor jack was rough to say the least. When I was done. My back plus a bunch of muscles I had forgotten that I had were aching and throbbing. I had transmission fluid all in my hair. And I was not happy again to say the least.
Drag the now second bad tranny out from under the truck. Send my wife to the parts store to get yet another set of seals, filter and a pan gasket. ( I wasnt about to install yet another tranny without resealing it and making sure it had a clean filter)
I had a good feeling about the bone yard tranny because when I removed the pan it had what looked and smelled to be good fluid in it. The old filter was mildly dirty but nothing unusual.
When my wife returned from the parts store I popped the new seals in, replaced the filter and pan gasket, and began the process of dragging yet another transmission under my truck.

If you have never done it. Balancing a C6 on the pad of a floor jack while you lift it high enough to get a few bell housing bolts started and the rear crossmember in is NOT an easy task.
A few more cuss words and skinned knuckles later and it was in. Just had the tranny lines and drive shaft left to do but I was too tired to do anything else but strip down and shower and call it quits for the day.

Next morning was Sunday.
Didnt take me long to clean up the mess under the truck - connect the fluid lines - fill the tranny with fluid and start the truck up without the driveshaft installed.
By god I wanted to see the rear yoke move in both forward AND reverse before I put the driveshaft back in.
After allowing the fluid to get to operating temp and checking the level I dropped it in gear and - I had reverse AND forward gears!

Happy with what I had now I shut it down - installed the drive shaft - and went for a test drive.
Backed out of the driveway just fine - dropped into drive just fine - then promptly shuddered and grabbed thru every forward gear all the way around the block.
I couldnt believe it! - ANOTHER bad transmission? Could it be possible?

Ohhh - it was. It was not only possible but true!
The junk yard transmission that I had just paid $150.00 for (money that we didnt really have) was a piece of crap!

I didnt wanna have to remove that transmission. I kept trying to figure out what I did wrong.
I drove it around a bit more thinking that if I just heated it up one real good that it would stop shuddering and straighten itself out. But it wasnt happening.
Truth was - it was just another wore out piece of crap.

****** Continued in the next post ********

[basketcase0302]

Sharkdance,

Alright man, got me going!

Band adjustment on the boneyard tranny?

Basketcase

[MadMaxetc]

This is better than a Tom Clany novel!!

[averagef250]

Get a clean bench. Get a solvent washer. buy snap ring pliers as needed. Get an atsg manual for your C6.

Tear that sucker down and figure out what's wrong in there.

Slushboxes are big piles of junk with tons of seals, sprags, bushings and clutches to wear and break.

As worthless as they are, even if you have absolutely no clue how it actually works you can 99% of the time figure out exactly what went wrong by taking it apart. You have 3 of the buggers, I'm sure if you do have something wrong one of the others will have the parts to fix it.

Are you using the same converter with all the transmissions?

I don't know a whole lot about autos and I rebuild them frequently. Lots of 4L80E's, 47RH's, E4OD's.

I've only had one not work right and that was a 4L80E behind a 12 valve cummins. I used the standard duty rear band and 800 lb/ft ripped that band to shreds. Kevlar band, problem fixed.

Every transmission I've ever pulled down that had something major wrong with it was very apparent what the problem was. Fried clutches, worn bushings causing a sprag to drag, bad drum seals, etc.

[Sharkdance]

********* Continued from previous post ***************

The good news is that I had a money back guarantee for the bone yard tranny that I had just spent a week end installing into my truck.
The bad news was that I had to remove it and get it back up to the shop before I could get my money back.
The guy was apologetic. I know he didnt knowingly sell me a bad transmission. But he damn sure wasnt going to refund me for the seals, filter kit, and fluid I bought to install his piece of junk. Nor was he going to compensate me for any of my labor.
So at this point Im out the price of 2 front seals, 2 rear seals, 2 filter kits, and a case of type F fluid.
Lesson learned - Dont buy junk yard transmissions unless your gonna rebuild it before you install it.

So another week goes by. I remove the junk yard tranny - Talk another friend into getting it up to the shop for me - and get my money back.

During this whole week I kept trying to figure out how to come up with more money than I make in a week to have my original tranny rebuilt.
In the mean time I read that the C6 is about the easiest transmission in the world to rebuild and several people tell me I ought to just go ahead and rebuild it myself.
I dont know if its true but I do consider myself to be pretty mechanically inclined and figure Im gonna have to buy the parts kit anyway no matter who I get to rebuild it.
I did just get my $150.00 cash back from the bad tranny bone yard.
That just happened to be just enough to purchase a master rebuild kit complete with clutches and steels, another case of fluid, and a twelve pack of beer.

By that next week end I was so frustrated I figured I didnt have much to lose.
I had studied my shop manual and was actually starting to believe that I could probably rebuild my original tranny myself.
Plus I always had the spare one from the donor truck to fall back on for reference and/or parts if I needed.
Only problem was - I still didnt know what was wrong with that one.

So that Saturday morning I put on my grubby work clothes. Went out to my garage. Cleaned and cleared off my work bench. and set out to rebuild my first automatic transmission myself.
I was ready to delve into the world of the mysterious slush box - The world of the automatic transmission - A world feared by most mere mortals! (or anybody with good sense)

After draining my original tranny into a 5 gallon bucket I moved it to my work bench and began dis-assembling it. One piece at a time.
I carefully laid each piece aside in the exact same order I removed it.
I took my time. Took most of the day actually but when I was done I had an empty case and a scary looking valve body layed out from one end of my work bench all the way to the other.
I wrapped up the empty case in a plastic bag and spent a bit of time inspecting each individual part and cross referencing them with the shop manual.
By the end of that day. It actually started making sense to me. And I was able to identify what was wrong with my old transmission.
It felt exciting to me to be able to make some sense out of the gazillion parts spread out in front of me. To at least partially understand where something went, how it fit together, and why it worked that way.
After spending an entire day studying, reading, fitting parts together and taking them back apart in an effort to understand how they fit and why.
I had determined that my original transmission had burned up steels and friction plates and one thrust washer behind the planetary gear had been crushed and disintegrated.
That explained the mess in the pan and the noises that the tranny had started making between shifts. I also figured the mushy shift was due to bad pressures inside the tranny from the excessive end play created by the now destroyed trust washer.
At this point, my main problem was that the planetary gear was chewed up around the tab holes where the destroyed thrust washer was suposed to lock in, and the rebuild kit didnt have one of those in it.

Oh well, by then it was getting close to dinner time and I was tired - my head hurt.

******** Continued in the next post *************

[MadMaxetc]

[Sharkdance]

******** Continued from earlier post ******

Its Sunday mornin.
Refreshed and ready to tackle the tranny rebuild I had started (and worried that my parts would get moved or lost before I could get this sucker back together) I took my second cup O coffee into the garage with me. Spent about a half hour reviewing what Id read the day before and re-inspecting all of the parts I had laid out across my work bench. I fired up the air compressor, found a couple of cans of brake kleen, and took the nasty empty transmission case out into the back yard. On the picnic bench is where I laid it. I sprayed it down real good on the outside. Almost using a whole can. Blew it off with the air hose. And viola, One shiny transmission case.
I knew that the important part was not what the outside looked like, that the cleanliness of the inside is what really mattered. But I didnt want any of that greasy sandy muck from the outside to drip/drain contaminate the inside. Thats why I cleaned it as well as I could with what little brake kleen I had. (saving the other can for the inside of the case)
I rolled it around, sprayed it from every direction I could possibly spray it from and kept blowing it off with the blow gun.
Somebody had told me no matter how clean I thought it was, to never use a rag to wipe down any part of an automatic transmission once its been opened up.
Dont know if thats true, but I didnt wanna find out the hard way.
Anyway, when I was satisfied with how clean the outside was, I started in on the inside. Spraying - blowing - spraying - blowing.
The inside wasnt really hard to clean at all. Actually it was already pretty darned clean before I started. But I figured if it were possible for any shavings of that destroyed thrust washer or those busted up friction plates to be hiding in there that I was gonna do my best to flush em out.
I rolled it around - sprayed - blew air thru it - and cleaned it some more till the can of brake kleen was empty.
Thing was, I knew, no matter how clean I got it - it probably wasnt clean enough.

When I got back inside the garage - I then realized that I didnt have any brake kleen left and hadnt cleaned any of the parts on the work bench.
I gathered all of the steels and friction plated together and moved them all to the far end of the bench, just to get them out of the way. I wasnt gonna use them, (I had new ones) but I didnt wanna throw them away till after I had matched each one up with the new ones in the kit.
I put the tore up planitary gear aside knowing that I would have to rob that part from the spare transmission that I still hadnt dis-assembled.
I wasnt looking forward to having 2 automatic transmissions dis-assembled at the same time in my garage. In fact I was kinda creeped out by the idea. Who knew what could happen if parts started to get mixed up.....

In the mean time, I had to figure out how to clean the rest of my parts without any more brake kleen.
I have and old timey oil squirter, One of them all metal ones that squirts oil at like 100 miles an hour when you squeeze the trigger really hard.
I figured there was a pretty good amount of pressure there so I poured out the machine oil that was in it and filled it up with clean transmission fluid.
I then took each part in order off the bench and held it over the 5 gallon bucket that I drained the tranny in and squirted it from every angle I could while rubbing my fingers over the parts. It seemed to work. The parts got cleaner and any where I could find a hole or passage thru a part I squirted the clean fluid thru it as forcefully as I could. Last came the drums, they were harder to clean this way because of their weight so I did the best I could with them.
When everything was as clean as I could get it and my bench was covered with wet drippy transmission parts I turned my attention to the spare transmission.

I now knew what I needed out of that one to fix mine and how to remove them, but I was still nervous about taking apart another transmission while I had the first one apart. Plus I didnt have any more room in my garage to work with.
So - I took a couple of saw horses and set them outside the garage doors, on the driveway - in front of where my truck was sitting patiently waiting another transmission transplant.
Drained the second tranny into the 5 gallon bucket, and threw it up on a piece of plywood laying across the saw horses and began dis-assembling transmission #2.
The thing was - this transmission was in my truck too. it was the spare that I had kept from the donor truck - it was the one that only had one forward gear no matter what gear you put it in via the shifter.
The kicker is, had I known what to look for back then, I could have driven my truck home that first day that I had put it in.
Now that I had a limited knowledge of what to look for inside an automatic transmission - the problem with this one was an obvious and simple one. As soon as i removed the pan it was plain to see that the internal shifting linkage had jumped out of the valve bodies gear selector.
Had I known this - i could have fixed it within a few minutes and been driving it home that first Saturday at the shop.

I know - I know - If frogs had wings - If wishes were horses........

Anyway - too late for all of that now.
I went ahead and completed the dis-assembly of the spare transmission making sure to save the planitary gear and ALL of the thrust washers. (keeping them in order)
I figured if I was gonna replace any 1 of the thrust washers in my original transmission that I probably should replace all of them as a set since I didnt really know the thickness of the old destroyed washer I was replacing.
I didnt know how to divide the thickness of each washer to come up with correct end play inside the transmission but if I had a full and complete set from a working transmission then it was probably closer than just replacing one of an unknown thickness. (truth be known, I didnt know if it made any difference at all but that was my way of thinking at the time)

So - now I had the parts that I needed and along with all of the parts of the master kit I purchased I felt pretty confident I was on my way to successfully rebuilding my first automatic transmission.

B.T.W.
It turned out that the spare tranny had more than just the linkage wrong with it - yes I could have driven it home that first day - but it wouldnt have lasted because the clutches were burned worse than the ones in my original tranny and the steels were burned and blued from slippage.
So it wouldnt have lasted and I would have been having to rebuild one of them anyway.

*********** Continued in the next post **********

[MadMaxetc]

This may be one of the signs that I am a sick man but,...This actualy makes me want to go out and rebuild my C6!!

[Sharkdance]

Wow! this truly is turning into a saga isnt it?

I knew this was gonna be a long story. (believe me - I know - I lived it ) but I want to tell it cuz I feel some folks may learn from my mistakes and/or successes.
If its too much I could just trim it down and get to the end result.

Im tired for now so Im gonna back down and maybe finish this story at a later date. Until then - I guess you will just have to wonder if I ever got it back together and if it actually worked or not. You might be surprised.

basketcase

Thanks for the welcome.
You can keep guessing if you want - or I could just tell you. But you should keep reading the saga.
Believe me - its a tale of love AND hate.

spartman

Good to see you again - yea, we seem to share some kinda screwed up karma thing dont we.
Was I realy that bad of a person in another life?

averagef250

Excellent advice!!
Where the hell were you when I needed you? Oh yea, thats right... where the hell was I????
Thanks for the advice, I do wish I had known then what I know now.
But thats why I wanna tell this story - so someone else might save themselves either some heartache or money.


MadMaxetc

Oh yea!!! Your one sick puppy alright!!!!!!!!!!!
Be careful what you wish for.. I havent gotten to the end of this little saga yet.

David
AKA Sharkdance

[fordman]

i have been inside several trannies before so this is long for me. but i am still reading.

[basketcase0302]

Sharkdance,

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go down this road soon.

I'm with ya' on the boneyard tranny, (too much work to get them back out)!

Basketcase

[uboughtwhat?]

Tell us how it ended..............